Got my rifle back today..

[nightfighter]

Cz 452 Varmint in 22wmr.

Didn't know when I moved here that there is a really good gunsmith in this little town. So I got some real nice work for a fair price.

Shot @ 50 yds today..windy conditions..best group 1/4"..worst group 1/2".

Two things surprised me:

First, instead of being a little finiky about ammunition, it shot six different flavors today so consistantly well, that I'm hard pressed to declare a winner. Win 40 gr JHPs were the worst before, and today they were great. CCI Maxi Mag+V were the 2nd worst before and they were great. Rem Premiere v-max shot great before and even better today.

My second surprise was that when the wind picked up, the lighter weight rounds grouped better than the heavier bullets. Frankly I would have expected the opposite.

I was shooting from a folding camp chair with shooting sticks I made. I'd love to see what this would do off bags.

NF

[Charlotte]

What did he do to your rifle?

[nightfighter]

charlotte said:

What did he do to your rifle?

He bedded and pillared it, lighened the trigger, and I had him add a buttpad to increase the LOP.

Bedding: he bedded the rear lug and excavated the stock a bit on each side of the reciever to accept the epoxy better, and bedded the first 2 inches of the barrel. The pillar is beautiful, hand turned on metal lathe and sized micrometer-perfect..nice and heavy, not like lamp-tubing.

Trigger: ended up a tad lighter than I prefer with plenty of adjustment on the heavier side. My trigger was tight and crisp and really nice for hunting, but a bit heavy for shooting groups. I had estimated the pull at 3 1/2 lbs, and thats exactly what it measured before the trigger job. After shooting yesterday, I think I can enjoy lightening it another couple of ounces, but its real nice.

Buttpad: it is a slight improvement, coupled with a higher set of BKL rings, but the real problem is the stock is too high in the comb for me. I imagine that possibly a Varmint stock is made to be fired prone, but I'm just guessing, I always used open sights till now.

I have been a professional woodworker many years. Maybe I'll make a stock for it this winter.

The charge for the trigger job was $45. bedding $45. pillar $15.

Very reasonable, and this fellow has done smithing for folks from all over the world, and is a magician when it comes to restoring really old shot-out rifles to active duty.


Since I only plan to have one rifle, I'm putting my attention on getting my skills back. Frankly, I thought it would be quicker and easier, but on the plus side, I *do* still remember how I got there in the first place, and progress so far would please a lot of folks better than it does me.

NF

[nightfighter]

Shot my first sub 1/4" group @ 50 yds a couple days ago...the rest all hovering near 1/2"

Then yesterday @ 80 yds. I was having a tough time..couldn't seem to get under 3/4"..having some trouble seeing what is actually happening out there despite a decent scope.

I recently made some awesome shots with Gamo pellet rifle @ 135-140 yds with open sights. Even though I can't see them that clearly, I guess I just had enough experience with open sights that my 'guesses' are better.

Going to practice with my mag again this evening..stick to one type of ammo for a while.



NF

[nightfighter]

Yesterday, @ 100 yds, I found that my rifle seemed a *lot* more picky about which ammunition I used.

At 50 yds it seemed to like just about everything I fed it, with the single exception of Winchester Dynapoints, out of 9 different brands/loads.

Then at 100 yds, the groups with most of them opened up a whole lot, [2 inches], even the REM Premiers.

The CCI MM 40g JHP did real well, with the best group of the day, [.8125].

At least I know what ammunition to stick to, but I *had* hoped to have the option of a lighter bullet at 100yds.

[And to have so many different flavors of ammunition go loose on me all at once like that seems, well, wierd.]


Has anyone experienced this before? Is there something I'm doing wrong here?

Thanks a lot,

NF

[sheffieldshootr]

Achieving your desired level of accuracy at twice the range is not twice as hard. It is three to four times harder. Everything has more time to work on your projectile. Wind, humidity, etc. Also, visual challenges like mirage are greater.

Do you use wind flags? Shooting for groups at 100 yards without em is luck of the draw.

[nightfighter]

sheffieldshootr said:

Achieving your desired level of accuracy at twice the range is not twice as hard. It is three to four times harder. Everything has more time to work on your projectile. Wind, humidity, etc. Also, visual challenges like mirage are greater.

Do you use wind flags? Shooting for groups at 100 yards without em is luck of the draw.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I had some visual problems. Mirage is a bit less. It was beastly in the hotter weather.

My shooting setup is less than Ideal. I plan to build a bench soon. RIght now Im using an old camp chair and shooting sticks. That in itself works a tad better @50 yds than @ 100 yds.

I don't use windflags, and some days its really windy here. Yesterday was really calm.

I used to be a sailor, and am accustomed to paying attention to the wind, its speed and direction. I have been able as a rule to shoot at relatively consistant lulls , and in windy conditions at shorter ranges, I was able to group fairly well. I can see that everything gets more difficult by multiples as the distance increases, as you said.

LOL..As I write this I am realizing how much potential 'slop' is built into my 'method'.

Thanks again,

NF

[Jon]

Don't worry nightfighter,

I have the same rifle as you with the same work done to it except my trigger is around 1 pound.

With rimfires, wind is it's worst enemy My best group on a calm day was 3/4" minus the bullet diameter which puts it close to 1/2 inch with 33 grain remingtons.

Can it do that everytime, HECK NO if you can consistently shoot 1 inch to 1 1/2 without flags at 100 yards your doing your part, 22mag ammo has one bad thing going for it, that stubby pistol bullet shape which is horrible for distance shooting.

ALL rimfires are have this shortcoming, no matter what you hear. Those fellas claiming 1/2 inch groups all day long with any rimfire ammo is just plain fibbing, ask any of the competition shooters here, and trust me we have the best in the biz on this site.

[nightfighter]

billyo said:

Don't worry nightfighter,

I have the same rifle as you with the same work done to it except my trigger is around 1 pound.

With rimfires, wind is it's worst enemy My best group on a calm day was 3/4" minus the bullet diameter which puts it close to 1/2 inch with 33 grain remingtons.

Can it do that everytime, HECK NO if you can consistently shoot 1 inch to 1 1/2 without flags at 100 yards your doing your part, 22mag ammo has one bad thing going for it, that stubby pistol bullet shape which is horrible for distance shooting.

ALL rimfires are have this shortcoming, no matter what you hear. Those fellas claiming 1/2 inch groups all day long with any rimfire ammo is just plain fibbing, ask any of the competition shooters here, and trust me we have the best in the biz on this site.

Thanks Jon,

Thats encouraging, and I appreciate hearing from you.

I've had some multiple predator problems, and there are a couple of locations where I *know* I will get a shot. Not frequently, but eventually I will for sure. Known distances.

I have been working my way back, distance-wise, and each increment is requiring a bit more of me. I won't take the shot until I know I can do it. I need to be able to hit a 2" circle @ 146 yards with the first shot. Cold barrel. Every time. Thats what I'm working up to. It might be a little unrealistic, but I never accomplished anything I didn't work for.

Meantime I also practice distance estimation every day as well. Probably be easier to get a rangefinder, but for me, I know what its like in the clutch, so I keep working on my skills.

I also practice fast sight-acquire-fire on diffcult targets. Give myself one second. That makes three seconds feel luxurious

WHat I have trouble practicing is steadiness. I had it like a rock once upon a time, now I'm a great-grandfather, and I use sticks and a scope [newfangled gadgets]

I haven't ever shot BR, but about now I've been wanting to try, just to sort out what the rifle is capable of and get myself out of the equation.

I guess I will continue to practice. Discipline agrees with me. I was discouraged when the Rem Premiers got so loose, as they used to be really dependable, as were TNTs. I got my hopes up @ 50 yds, because I couldn't seem to go wrong...everything grouped.

So now I have one very effective, [40gr JHP], round that still groups nicely @ 100yds. I guess thats nothing to complain about.

I will lighten my trigger tomorrow. Great idea.

Thanks for the perspective,

NF


PS..If anyone has other practice ideas, I'd love to hear about them.

[Jon]

The trigger may help.

But what I do for practice is much like what you are planning to do.

I like to put up very small targets, so that my fcous doesnt wander, I really like those little flouresent sticky dots that are about a 1/2 inch in diameter.

I tend to hit more accurately when there is an object I can focus on, this works well for my wife too. I can put a target up for with 1 big bullseye on it, and she can barely hit the center.

But on the other hand I can tell here to aim at a plastic bottle cap and hit it 9 times out of 10, do you see what I'm saying? It's hard to put it into words.

I do have a couple of 150 yard targets that I play around with, there are a 4 inch circle and if I put my scope on 12 power it looks just like that little Flouresent target I was telling you about.

Most times on a calm day I am capable of 1 1/2 inch groups at 150 some more some less But my bullets rarely stray out of the 2" inch circle.

So I feel your goals are very realistic. And post Pics when you do it! ;D

AH HA here is my best 150 yard target, this was with no wind shot off a bi-pod.

The right was shot with win 34 grain HP's and the left was shot with 33 grain V-max



The inner circle is one inch the next ring out is 2" inches. Anything the size of a woodchuck at that distance on a calm day will be in a world of hurt.

[Jon]

For some perspective on hpw much wind affects rimfires, Here is a target shot with a .204 ruger (.20 cal. centerfire cartridge) that I shot from the same distance using a 32 grain hornady v-max at 4,150 fps .



Here is a comparison of what the ammo looks like:



The 32 grain .204 is on the right, the 22mag 33 grain is on the left

[nightfighter]

billyo said:

The trigger may help.

But what I do for practice is much like what you are planning to do.

I like to put up very small targets, so that my fcous doesnt wander, I really like those little flouresent sticky dots that are about a 1/2 inch in diameter.

My 50 yd targets have a 1 3/8" black bull and thats what I've been using @ 100 yds. Those flourescent dots sound like just the thing. I'll definitely try that.

I tend to hit more accurately when there is an object I can focus on, this works well for my wife too. I can put a target up for with 1 big bullseye on it, and she can barely hit the center.

But on the other hand I can tell here to aim at a plastic bottle cap and hit it 9 times out of 10, do you see what I'm saying? It's hard to put it into words.

I do understand what you're saying, and I think you put it well. If the target is too large I tend to wander. When its smaller I am more decisive; I know when I'm on it.

At 50 yards, I cranked the scope down to 6 power and did better. At 100 yards I increased it to 9. Kind of similar effect..your 1/2" dots..at what distance do you use them?

I do have a couple of 150 yard targets that I play around with, there are a 4 inch circle and if I put my scope on 12 power it looks just like that little Flouresent target I was telling you about.

That helps, I can duplicate that. I'll let you know how it goes.

Most times on a calm day I am capable of 1 1/2 inch groups at 150 some more some less But my bullets rarely stray out of the 2" inch circle.

So I feel your goals are very realistic. And post Pics when you do it! ;D

Thanks for the encouragement, I can use it.

Light and variable winds today, very still pauses. At 100 yds. first shot, cold barrel, with last times champ ammunition, and I hit 2 3/4" low and 2 1/2" to the right. Needless to say, that was less than uplifting.

Got a bit disgusted, and tried the Rem Premiers, and they grouped 1 1/2" in the lower right quadrant of the bull. Then back to the cci 40g JHP again and it did the same.

So after studying my targets, and thinking about it in the back of my mind last couple hours, I'm thinking that I used the sling on that first shot. Must have torsioned the forend of the stock. Barrel is floated, but only just..and that Turkish Walnut has quite a bit less stiffness than American Walnut. [There are other substantial technical differences too].

I know I did not have the crosshairs bouncing in that area, and I usually forego using the sling with sticks, as I have enough to contend with trying to get solid in this old chair

Didn't get under 1 1/2" today, so, back to the range tomorrow.

AH HA here is my best 150 yard target, this was with no wind shot off a bi-pod.

The right was shot with win 34 grain HP's and the left was shot with 33 grain V-max



The inner circle is one inch the next ring out is 2" inches. Anything the size of a woodchuck at that distance on a calm day will be in a world of hurt.

Now thats real nice Jon, if I get them looking like that @ 150 yds. I'm going to be happy. Thanks for sharing the photo. I will post some photos soon.

Going to work on that fence tomorrow. I have had this idea to build a golfcourse-like shooting range. Ride the golf cart from target to target. Kentucky Bluegrass style horse fence, bridges over the creek, shooting benches, and etc. ad infinitum. Then I go work on this fence and it whups my behind:) Good thing I don't mind telling my wife when she's right:)

I enjoyed your post; made for a nice evening,

NF

[nightfighter]

billyo said:

For some perspective on hpw much wind affects rimfires, Here is a target shot with a .204 ruger (.20 cal. centerfire cartridge) that I shot from the same distance using a 32 grain hornady v-max at 4,150 fps .

You must be reading my mind. I've been thinking centerfire a lot lately

For coyotes, no contest. I'm getting back into shooting after 30 years. Necessity being a mother, and all Figured my 22mag would be a good all-around rifle, and it is. Plenty of small varmints too. [If you let the rabbits proliferate, the coyotes get worse...not to mention what rabbits did to my garden. ]
I was determined not to start "collecting" again. I might be weakening.

NF

[nightfighter]

when I last cleaned my rifle, I only ran one dry patch through the bore after the last patch with CorrsionX on it. I usually run 3 or 4 dry ones at the end. That dry patch did come out oily.

Could a bit of oil in the bore like that affect the accuracy of the first shot??

NF

[Jon]

It could, but not sure.

I patch my barrels until they are dry on all my guns.

This is my opinion but I believe excess oil or the like attract dirt, and dirt in my gun is not something I believe can make the gun shoot better, again this is just my opinion.

If you are looking to add a centerfire, I would suggest a .22 hornet, very mild recoil like the 22mag, and I'd say for the most part it is more accurate. With an added bonus of being able to take coyote sized animals at the distance you stated before.

They are however louder, but not by alot, and of course ammo is more expensive. H&R makes a cheap one that wouldn't set you back all that much, as a matter of fact it will be cheaper than your CZ.

I would recommend a .204 but I'm not sure how they would work on a coyote, it should work well but I have no personal expirience yet, only paper so far.